tell us the Puritan's changed from being persecuted to being persecutors.
It seems in general the nobel characteristics of adventurers, respectability, “of good estate,” lovers of liberty, distinct and well-marked religious views were overcome by too sturdy an independence, too strong a sense of duty to abandon what they held in trust even in the midst of the bitterest persecution. A perceived new persecution from Native Americans. "The Puritans were seeking freedom, but they didn't understand the idea of toleration." "Because they fear the Native Americans as Devil Worshipers & do not accept the Native beliefs."
I say all this not to judge the Puitans for I have never known persecution in my life and the fears that may instill. But I say this to answer your questions. "what comes with us? What stays behind? Why?"
What we take with us is tolerance and we leave behind fear for this will lead to greater understanding. Yes the journey ahead of us is long but the first step starts today and all our travel companions are known to us.
My final obtuse wanker comment of the month, I promise....
Does the idea of America, or Europe, or Africa or any of it really matter? I know we behave as if it matters, but do you ever notice that the importance we give it is something that has to be perpetually reinforced, dragged out through sports, holidays, flags, figure heads, positions, anthems - throughout our whole lives. In my limited experience, most things of true importance require a lot of work for sure, but not regular reminders to do the work.
My personal take on such things these days is irrespective of the origin or intention, nation states exist now as a tool of the parasitic globe spanning system about to burst as a result of its own avarice. They are beautiful and quaint as portraits of the ways that customs and cultures have developed - like finding a woodcut print... but the woodcut, for all intents and purposes, is obselete....
And the take on humans "that's what we do" - in a way, yes, but all? Is it not more accurate to say "that's what power does", as those in it are just those who have crammed enough of the systems programming in to their head and destroyed most of their conscience. The result of which, they don't actually think. They just burp out system. Cold and callous code to the point that their actions are actually inhuman. Most of us outside of that are actually really rather helpful and just want to get along, no? I do have a naive streak, so...
Reality is complicated. If we don't have a way to speak about it, if we refuse to use those words, we can no longer conceive of those thoughts. We are lessened when we remove ideas, concepts, and things like that.
And yes, all humans. Our will to survive transmutes into the will to power. There are various good things that wrangle this urge, like religion, but at the end of the day the story of our species is sinners, saints, winners, and losers.
Yes, we are. Don’t you see that is what our system is - a remover of ideas? Any idea is permitted, as long as it serves the interests of power. Any other idea about a more equitable, collaborative based system is attacked as naive, economically sanctioned, not printed in books, or bombed to pieces if things get that far. I’m not arguing for particular ism. You know my thoughts on that of course.
But it is also true that most of the ideas and concepts we cling to as a result of their promotion within our system are also garbage. An idiot’s wisdom elevated within a mode of living that has become dominant, but dominance is not necessarily evidence of sensible. There is a decent body of study that suggests much of the ill health both physical and mental - I mean the anxiety etc etc - exists because of our forced lifelong adaption to a system that benefits power. Other models of human existence thrived for thousands of years within various tribes around the globe. But we cherry pick our brutal, dominance and competive version of human history - that’s what power pays to be printed in books, put in curriculums etc. We are pickled in it since birth, believing as a result that it is the only mode of existence possible. That is irrefutably not true.
We are so much more than the whirlwind of stupidity we’ve created for ourselves.
So please don’t misinterpret anything I’ve written as advocacy for the forced removal of ideas. More of a collective shaking off of a load of bullshit. you know, like when you’re an adolescent so much weird shit matters to you. But later you realise…. I’m not calling anyone adolescent, and if I were, I’d be top of the list.
Ross Douthat called America a nation of heretics, as most of us came for religious freedom, as you mentioned. That's certainly played out in... interesting ways. We wanted to leave our problems behind us and in some ways we brought them along.
I think I mostly agree with you. The "New World," the "land of opportunity," is about letting everyone's goofball ideas play out in a free market until we settle on something that works -- and ultimately, in the very long run, only the truth works. A system that allows people the freedom to screw up is a system where right thinking triumphs in the end. The problem is that the consequences of bad ideas sometimes take generations to play out (as with the sexual revolution, fight me) and we are very impatient.
Part of what I'm trying to push against is that impatience. Nothing like what we're discussing resolves quickly, or easily.
So we have an overabundance of people sperging out on the internet instead of doing worthwhile things in the their homes and their communities.
And, if history does a history, truth winning out means the likelihood of disasters is high. The corrective action comes after those, yes? How do we prepare our progeny for that, instead of bashing our heads against the wall now?
I don't know if we're thinking about the same thing, but the half-baked ideas about Christian nationalism seem (to me) mostly just not thought out at all and at worst an opportunity for fed shenanigans. I've been fighting that by promoting 1) Lao Tzu's exhortation that the Emperor emulate the Tao; 2) Martin Luther's writings on secular authority; and 3) Mussolini's tactics for duping the Roman Catholic Church into supporting his rule (you don't want to be a fool, do ya??).
Jesus' Sermon on the Mount turned the pyramid upside down. Everyone else came in with might and subjugated their neighbors, but Jesus said those in a true state of blessedness were the humble, meek, poor, etc. The proud have nowhere to go but to fall.
I don’t think Christian Nationalism exists off the Internet. I think everyone chasing it is being misled, trolled by the usual suspects called “our government.”
I do think it's a psy op but I have at least one friend who calls himself a Christian Nationalist. He isn't a Nazi, he just thinks of it as regular patriotism.
Idaho has some Calvinist dude fighting for Christian Nationalism on a pretty high profile level. Is he a fed or just convenient to feds? I knoweth not
I have a degree in Political Science. I have never heard of a "proposition-state" nor is there anything that comes up when I search the Internet for the term anywhere. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch! You made it up!
Moreover, the term Nation State is reference to ancient Greece - Athens, Sparta, Thebes, Rhodes, Syracuse, etc. those were 'Nation States'.
I am not aware of any Nation States in the contemporary world.
I refer to all current countries as "Nation States" - and have for many years. Too many people - especially us "educated" people who are quite often wrong.
I am trying to understand this from the perspective of Political Science not opinion.
'Nation State' is reference to the civic model of Ancient Greece. Each state of Greece had it's own system of Government, and their own Military, whom often were at war with each other - and it was not civil war because both sides did not fall under the same government despite being States of Greece. Like the Peloponnesian War between Athens & Sparta, both Nations States of ancient Greece.
Nation State is the civic model of ancient Greece. A unified Constitutional Republic is the Roman civic model.
What are the contemporary Nation States? What contemporary nations are not unified under a single Government by law?
Thank you. I wish you would have lead with that. I see your point, & it's a great one that makes a lot of sense. My apologies I got caught up reading those links, and they didn't help me.
I am familiar with the term "Propositional Nation". It's from Abe Lincoln, but "proposition-state" caused a temporary divide by zero error in my brain. Thank you very much for explaining. Cheers!
I cannot speak to the mindset of the individuals on the John of London. However, historic accounts (google search; how did puritans treat Native Americans) (https://www.google.com/search?q=how+did+puritans+treat+native+americans&rlz=1C1VDKB_enUS1084US1085&oq=how+puritans+treated+native+americans&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCAgBEAAYFhgeMgYIABBFGDkyCAgBEAAYFhgeMg0IAhAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0IAxAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0IBBAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMgoIBRAAGKIEGIkFMgoIBhAAGKIEGIkFMgoIBxAAGKIEGIkFMgoICBAAGIAEGKIE0gEKMjI2MjVqMGoxNagCCLACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
tell us the Puritan's changed from being persecuted to being persecutors.
It seems in general the nobel characteristics of adventurers, respectability, “of good estate,” lovers of liberty, distinct and well-marked religious views were overcome by too sturdy an independence, too strong a sense of duty to abandon what they held in trust even in the midst of the bitterest persecution. A perceived new persecution from Native Americans. "The Puritans were seeking freedom, but they didn't understand the idea of toleration." "Because they fear the Native Americans as Devil Worshipers & do not accept the Native beliefs."
I say all this not to judge the Puitans for I have never known persecution in my life and the fears that may instill. But I say this to answer your questions. "what comes with us? What stays behind? Why?"
What we take with us is tolerance and we leave behind fear for this will lead to greater understanding. Yes the journey ahead of us is long but the first step starts today and all our travel companions are known to us.
I'd suggest the Puritans, or any person, didn't do anything the Indians themselves did not.
Perhaps in differences of degree or method, but never in kind. That's a truth we must remember lest we collapse in despair.
Your students are blessed. Thank you for helping to better educate us knuckleheads in your spare time. Cheers!
1639 Cape Cod
Your family?
Or did I get something wrong? haha
Yes thats them
Realize that means to the WASPS were not bounders like those awful Kennedys. That’s why the Kennedys are accident prone.
My final obtuse wanker comment of the month, I promise....
Does the idea of America, or Europe, or Africa or any of it really matter? I know we behave as if it matters, but do you ever notice that the importance we give it is something that has to be perpetually reinforced, dragged out through sports, holidays, flags, figure heads, positions, anthems - throughout our whole lives. In my limited experience, most things of true importance require a lot of work for sure, but not regular reminders to do the work.
My personal take on such things these days is irrespective of the origin or intention, nation states exist now as a tool of the parasitic globe spanning system about to burst as a result of its own avarice. They are beautiful and quaint as portraits of the ways that customs and cultures have developed - like finding a woodcut print... but the woodcut, for all intents and purposes, is obselete....
And the take on humans "that's what we do" - in a way, yes, but all? Is it not more accurate to say "that's what power does", as those in it are just those who have crammed enough of the systems programming in to their head and destroyed most of their conscience. The result of which, they don't actually think. They just burp out system. Cold and callous code to the point that their actions are actually inhuman. Most of us outside of that are actually really rather helpful and just want to get along, no? I do have a naive streak, so...
Yes, I think it does matter quite a lot.
Reality is complicated. If we don't have a way to speak about it, if we refuse to use those words, we can no longer conceive of those thoughts. We are lessened when we remove ideas, concepts, and things like that.
And yes, all humans. Our will to survive transmutes into the will to power. There are various good things that wrangle this urge, like religion, but at the end of the day the story of our species is sinners, saints, winners, and losers.
Yes, we are. Don’t you see that is what our system is - a remover of ideas? Any idea is permitted, as long as it serves the interests of power. Any other idea about a more equitable, collaborative based system is attacked as naive, economically sanctioned, not printed in books, or bombed to pieces if things get that far. I’m not arguing for particular ism. You know my thoughts on that of course.
But it is also true that most of the ideas and concepts we cling to as a result of their promotion within our system are also garbage. An idiot’s wisdom elevated within a mode of living that has become dominant, but dominance is not necessarily evidence of sensible. There is a decent body of study that suggests much of the ill health both physical and mental - I mean the anxiety etc etc - exists because of our forced lifelong adaption to a system that benefits power. Other models of human existence thrived for thousands of years within various tribes around the globe. But we cherry pick our brutal, dominance and competive version of human history - that’s what power pays to be printed in books, put in curriculums etc. We are pickled in it since birth, believing as a result that it is the only mode of existence possible. That is irrefutably not true.
We are so much more than the whirlwind of stupidity we’ve created for ourselves.
So please don’t misinterpret anything I’ve written as advocacy for the forced removal of ideas. More of a collective shaking off of a load of bullshit. you know, like when you’re an adolescent so much weird shit matters to you. But later you realise…. I’m not calling anyone adolescent, and if I were, I’d be top of the list.
Ross Douthat called America a nation of heretics, as most of us came for religious freedom, as you mentioned. That's certainly played out in... interesting ways. We wanted to leave our problems behind us and in some ways we brought them along.
I think I mostly agree with you. The "New World," the "land of opportunity," is about letting everyone's goofball ideas play out in a free market until we settle on something that works -- and ultimately, in the very long run, only the truth works. A system that allows people the freedom to screw up is a system where right thinking triumphs in the end. The problem is that the consequences of bad ideas sometimes take generations to play out (as with the sexual revolution, fight me) and we are very impatient.
Part of what I'm trying to push against is that impatience. Nothing like what we're discussing resolves quickly, or easily.
So we have an overabundance of people sperging out on the internet instead of doing worthwhile things in the their homes and their communities.
And, if history does a history, truth winning out means the likelihood of disasters is high. The corrective action comes after those, yes? How do we prepare our progeny for that, instead of bashing our heads against the wall now?
I don't know if we're thinking about the same thing, but the half-baked ideas about Christian nationalism seem (to me) mostly just not thought out at all and at worst an opportunity for fed shenanigans. I've been fighting that by promoting 1) Lao Tzu's exhortation that the Emperor emulate the Tao; 2) Martin Luther's writings on secular authority; and 3) Mussolini's tactics for duping the Roman Catholic Church into supporting his rule (you don't want to be a fool, do ya??).
Jesus' Sermon on the Mount turned the pyramid upside down. Everyone else came in with might and subjugated their neighbors, but Jesus said those in a true state of blessedness were the humble, meek, poor, etc. The proud have nowhere to go but to fall.
I don’t think Christian Nationalism exists off the Internet. I think everyone chasing it is being misled, trolled by the usual suspects called “our government.”
It’s a scam. Like Patriot Front.
I do think it's a psy op but I have at least one friend who calls himself a Christian Nationalist. He isn't a Nazi, he just thinks of it as regular patriotism.
Idaho has some Calvinist dude fighting for Christian Nationalism on a pretty high profile level. Is he a fed or just convenient to feds? I knoweth not
How many divisions do they have?
And Patriot Front doesn’t cut it?
We're on different parts of the same page, I think.
Those three things you're promoting sound promising. Have you written anything further on it? If not, would you?
I ask to cast a wide net.
Here. BECAUSE OF LOVE!!!111
https://open.substack.com/pub/houseofrevolt/p/how-to-fool-christians-into-giving?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=2qy14u
Sorry it's so long, feel free to plagiarize a TLDR.
I'm always kicking a million ideas around. First I have to get properly upset to get the juices flowing 😆
This poster seems to be a pedophile. That's not welcome here.
As you were.
I have a degree in Political Science. I have never heard of a "proposition-state" nor is there anything that comes up when I search the Internet for the term anywhere. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch! You made it up!
Moreover, the term Nation State is reference to ancient Greece - Athens, Sparta, Thebes, Rhodes, Syracuse, etc. those were 'Nation States'.
I am not aware of any Nation States in the contemporary world.
Please explain.
I refer to all current countries as "Nation States" - and have for many years. Too many people - especially us "educated" people who are quite often wrong.
I am trying to understand this from the perspective of Political Science not opinion.
'Nation State' is reference to the civic model of Ancient Greece. Each state of Greece had it's own system of Government, and their own Military, whom often were at war with each other - and it was not civil war because both sides did not fall under the same government despite being States of Greece. Like the Peloponnesian War between Athens & Sparta, both Nations States of ancient Greece.
Nation State is the civic model of ancient Greece. A unified Constitutional Republic is the Roman civic model.
What are the contemporary Nation States? What contemporary nations are not unified under a single Government by law?
What do you think about the proposition-state idea?
Removing the national borders of Canada, the United States, and Mexico makes for a very compelling map.
That's not an explanation it's a link. Do you not have a freethinking mind and speak for yourself?
Moreover, it's the imaginary term "proposition-state" that is problematic.
This is a friendly, gentle note that while I like throwing haymakers on Notes, I don't on my Substack.
Random, please do explain your thoughts. It would be most helpful.
Atomic, why do you disfavor "proposition-state?"
I don't, I'm just trying to understand what it means from a Political Science perspective, and how it relates to the UK and WWII era Germany.
I see now! Good stuff. I'm happy to have all your comments on here. They will help guide further Papers, I think.
Thank you. I wish you would have lead with that. I see your point, & it's a great one that makes a lot of sense. My apologies I got caught up reading those links, and they didn't help me.
I am familiar with the term "Propositional Nation". It's from Abe Lincoln, but "proposition-state" caused a temporary divide by zero error in my brain. Thank you very much for explaining. Cheers!